Trading players in fantasy leagues (NBA)
I've been asked lately to make several trades in my fantasy leagues, and I've seen some crazy stuff go on in my years of fantasy league basketball. So, here are some quick rules about trading players in a fantasy league, for both novices and veterans.
* 2 for 1 swaps rarely work: Remember people, this isn't like a real game. You can have X number of players at a time (X usually being 10 to 12). That's it. It's a finite number. Meaning if you offer to trade me 2 players for 1, I have to drop another one of my players. Just because you're not getting him back doesn't mean I'm not going to lose him, and whatever stats he is bringing me. For example, a friend of mine offered me Sam Cassel and Drew Gooden for Chris Webber. That's not a bad trade; the stats match up decently well. But when I factor in dropping my worst player, it doesn't match up well at all. I would be foolish for me to make such a move. So remember: If you're going to offer 2 for 1, you had better take a look at the worst player on that person's team and make sure the trade is still doable after dropping that player.
* Don't make insulting trade offers: Especially if you know that a person knows what they're doing. Come on. Let's not waste each other's time. It can lead to bitterness and resentment that will hurt you in future realistic trade offers, the rest of the league making fun of you--either to your face or behind your back--as the "can you believe he had the gall to offer me this for that" emails start flying, and people questioning your own competence. Be at least a little honest and fair.
* Don't try to trade a player you JUST picked up off waivers: This is insulting. If I'd wanted him, I'd have picked him up. Maybe if he's the third or fourth player in a trade, MAYBE then it's acceptable. But in a 2 for 1 or--God forbid you do this--a straight up swap, PLEASE don't do that. If we'd wanted him, we'd have picked him up.
* Remember: a bad trade in the NBA doesn't mean it's a bad trade in fantasy league: Just because you KNOW that no GM would ever trade blank for blank and possibly blank doesn't mean that it's a bad fantasy league trade. Fantasy league is purely about stats folks. It doesn't take into account leadership, locker room attitude, defensive abilities, etc. Simply look at the stats.
* You have to give up something to get something: Don't get me wrong: if you find someone ignorant, take advantage of them. That's part of the game, and the Commish is there to make sure it's not too unfair. However, when dealing with people who know what they're doing, realize you have to offer them something of value. "Hey why don't you trade me this guy just because" doesn't work. For example, if you need to improve your rebounding, you're probably going to have to give up someone that gets you a lot of assists. If you're not willing to do that, don't bother to make a trade offer. A smart owner only makes a trade if he gains something. Something doesn't mean everything; he can lose something, too, but he must gain something--and usually something significant--in order to give up a coveted player. It's the way the world works. We don't have to make trades for attitude problems or player demands here, so if you're initiating a trade, realize you're probably not going to get equal dollar.
* Respond in a decent amount of time: I've been guilty of this. Decide if you want to trade or not in a couple of days. If you don't have time right now, reject it and tell the guy you'll look at it later when you have more time. But be fair; the other owner might have other deals in the works that are dependent on yours.
There you have it kids. I hope this helps; let me know if you have any other rules you think should be added here.
* 2 for 1 swaps rarely work: Remember people, this isn't like a real game. You can have X number of players at a time (X usually being 10 to 12). That's it. It's a finite number. Meaning if you offer to trade me 2 players for 1, I have to drop another one of my players. Just because you're not getting him back doesn't mean I'm not going to lose him, and whatever stats he is bringing me. For example, a friend of mine offered me Sam Cassel and Drew Gooden for Chris Webber. That's not a bad trade; the stats match up decently well. But when I factor in dropping my worst player, it doesn't match up well at all. I would be foolish for me to make such a move. So remember: If you're going to offer 2 for 1, you had better take a look at the worst player on that person's team and make sure the trade is still doable after dropping that player.
* Don't make insulting trade offers: Especially if you know that a person knows what they're doing. Come on. Let's not waste each other's time. It can lead to bitterness and resentment that will hurt you in future realistic trade offers, the rest of the league making fun of you--either to your face or behind your back--as the "can you believe he had the gall to offer me this for that" emails start flying, and people questioning your own competence. Be at least a little honest and fair.
* Don't try to trade a player you JUST picked up off waivers: This is insulting. If I'd wanted him, I'd have picked him up. Maybe if he's the third or fourth player in a trade, MAYBE then it's acceptable. But in a 2 for 1 or--God forbid you do this--a straight up swap, PLEASE don't do that. If we'd wanted him, we'd have picked him up.
* Remember: a bad trade in the NBA doesn't mean it's a bad trade in fantasy league: Just because you KNOW that no GM would ever trade blank for blank and possibly blank doesn't mean that it's a bad fantasy league trade. Fantasy league is purely about stats folks. It doesn't take into account leadership, locker room attitude, defensive abilities, etc. Simply look at the stats.
* You have to give up something to get something: Don't get me wrong: if you find someone ignorant, take advantage of them. That's part of the game, and the Commish is there to make sure it's not too unfair. However, when dealing with people who know what they're doing, realize you have to offer them something of value. "Hey why don't you trade me this guy just because" doesn't work. For example, if you need to improve your rebounding, you're probably going to have to give up someone that gets you a lot of assists. If you're not willing to do that, don't bother to make a trade offer. A smart owner only makes a trade if he gains something. Something doesn't mean everything; he can lose something, too, but he must gain something--and usually something significant--in order to give up a coveted player. It's the way the world works. We don't have to make trades for attitude problems or player demands here, so if you're initiating a trade, realize you're probably not going to get equal dollar.
* Respond in a decent amount of time: I've been guilty of this. Decide if you want to trade or not in a couple of days. If you don't have time right now, reject it and tell the guy you'll look at it later when you have more time. But be fair; the other owner might have other deals in the works that are dependent on yours.
There you have it kids. I hope this helps; let me know if you have any other rules you think should be added here.
posted by Michael Pondrom at 8:05 AM
8 Comments:
I think you have to factor in other parts of the equation as well.
I make crazy offers and 2 for 1 offers all the time.
Who do I make them to? Teams that are at the bottom of the standings with time running out -- teams desperate to make a move that they might try anything decent to mix it up.
Teams that have injured players that are, once again, middle of the pack or near the bottom. A big-time hit to your best player could take you out of the playoff race. I made so many Gooden + X offers for Jermaine O'Neal it was crazy. And for O'Neal, it wasn't that insane b/c Jermaine couldn't get a spot on the IL, he was literally soaking up 1 spot doing nothing.
Teams that have a logjam at a certain position. If you can't get your guys into a lineup because you have 4 PG-only eligible players, then that's a potential mark.
Any team that has an extreme overload of one stat category is a trade-candidate. They're more likely to siphon off a bit of that one stat in order to improve other areas.
Also, if you look at say, my Hinrich/Gooden for Webber deal, it also involves potential injury. If Webber goes down, that 's a huge hit -- so you spread the talent of a star and dud over 2 good players and minimize injury risk and sit-out games. And you minimize schedule impacts... What if the Kings play 2 games 1 week and dud's team plays 4?
For the most part though, I agree. I know going into a 2 for 1, that I calculate my return based on the 1 + a free agent. I make a 2 for 1 because it appears more appealing than it really is... like offering a cheeseburger for $.99 instead of $1.
But you never know how teams are strategizing, so I think any offer is fine. If it's so outrageous, then you won't even waste anytime thinking about it, just cancel the offer. But you never know how it might go.
All 3 trades I've completed this year, I thought had little to no chance of being accepted, but they happened, and there you go : )
Nick
I think 2 for 1's have a legitimate place in fantasy sports. Really, many 2 for 2's or 3 for 3's are just masked 2 for 1's. There are even people that prefer to have 2 solid players instead of 1 great player just for injury concerns.
Also, I like to make crazy offers. Like Nick said, you never know what someone will agree to. You do have to temper the amount of crazy offers you make, you don't want to turn anybody off. If nothing else, though, crazy offers can be hilarious and make for great banter.
lol I do always appreciate Little Mike's offers... they crack me up
Nick
I'm not saying you can't make them; I'm just saying don't really expect them to be taken. And you're right Nick about injury being a factor; that is always to consider. But in that particular case...who's the bigger health question mark, Sam or CW? Sam may be one of the few players in the league who can take that title from Webber. At best, it's close.
And you're right, if there's a logjam, you can go for it. The point I think that you guys are missing is that you can't offer two guys who are equal to the one guy, stats wise. It has to be better, because no matter how bad the guy's team is, he still has to get rid of two contributing players. 2 + 2 may be greater than 3, but 2 + 2 is not greater than 3 + 2. Removing injury as a factor, it just won't work.
And hey, you can throw crazy trades out there. Just don't expect them to work. Yes, Mike's trades are greatness.
Michael
This gave me an idea Nick - I've proposed you a trade, you ought to check it out.
-MJM
you may be getting confused Mike... no one is trying to trade you Sam Cassell and Drew Gooden for Chris Webber. We don't even HAVE Sam Cassell. It was Hinrich and Gooden. I think Hinrich has a considerably less chance of getting injured. and the kid's on fire. So yeah, just to clarify.. you can't make any arguments against a cassell gooden trade cause there isn't one
I stand corrected, and cry your pardon. I've been getting a lot of trade bait lately. You're right, Heinrich is much less of a risk to get traded.
Michael
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