The Fight: Pacers versus Pistons
This wasn't unbelievable...this was inevitable.
Before we get into the ramifications, here's what happened for the few who don't know:
The Indiana Pacers were playing the Detroit Pistons in Detroit. With 50 seconds left in the game, Ron Artest (6'7", 250) fouled Big Ben Wallace (listed at 6'9" 240, but I doubt that...he's got to weigh more than that) hard. Not dirty, but hard. Ben shoved Ron Artest, who backed away from Ben so a fight would not break out. Eventually, he laid down on the scorers table and put his hands behind his head. The Pacers and the Pistons gathered around, and some shoving ensued--Stephen Jackson of the Pacers went particularly crazy--but nothing too bad happened. Things started to die down between the two teams.
At this point, a fan about 5 rows deep threw a full cup of beer at Ron Artest, hitting him in the head as he lay on the scorers table.
Ron Ron immediately got up, jumped into about the third row of the stands, jumped into the fifth row, grabbed the guy who threw the beer at him (reporters who saw the guy throw the beer confirmed that Ron Artest did get the right guy), and started to beat the shit out of him.
At this point, the guy's friends--four or five of them--grabbed Artest and drug him down. Then the Pacers entered the stands. Stephen Jackson grabbed one of the guys grabbing Artest and started to beat the shit out of him. David Harrison grabbed Artest and started to drag him towards the court. Jermaine O'Neal started to beat up one of the assailants. More fans began throwing drinks at the players.
Eventually, the players made it back to the court. However, several fans had made their way on to the court, and started physically and verbally abusing players. The players then started to beat the shit out of the fans on the court. The entire time, fans in the seats are throwing whatever they can get their hands on at the Pacers.
The coaches finally start guiding the players toward the locker room. Unfortuantely, the entrance to the locker room is by the bleachers. The Pacers were getting PELTED by almost everyone in the arena. O'Neal and Jackson again tried to get into the stands to get at some of the fans pelting them, but--fortunately for those fans--the blechers are raised at this section, and the players couldn't make it up to them.
On Sunday, David Stern suspended Ron Artest for the remainder of the season, Stephen Jackson for 30 games, and Jermaine O'Neal for 25 games. These are the three best players on the Indiana Pacers, and all suspensions are without pay. Ben Wallace was suspeneded for 6 games. There were a few other suspensions for one game for players leaving the bench.
Now...here's what I wrote in my NBA Eastern Conference Preview about the Pacers:
"Wow. This team has a chance to take over the Blazer’s title as “crackhead crazy team of the league”. Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, and Jamaal Tinsley all on one team? Seriously? Through in Scott Pollard’s crackah ass? Wow! This is going to be awesome! "
Sorry...apparently I forgot to mention Jermaine O'Neal.
There are a couple things that it is important to note before we begin this conversation:
* Ron Artest has a history of violent behavior in the NBA. He is suspened for dirty play quite often. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that he is on steroids (the guy is huge, and I remember a few years back when he was just some skinny small forward). I believe the reason for his crazy behavior is Roid Rage. I hate Ron Artest.
* Stephen Jackson is, in my opinion, certifiably insane, and I can't stand him, either.
* Big Ben Wallace is one of the most popular and beloved figures in the NBA. He is HUGE. Literally a huge body of iron. However, he's a nice guy, and is seen as somewhat of a "lovable huggable bear" type of star...he's huge, but people love him because they feel they can trust him. I am also a fan of Big Ben.
* I support the suspensions...they were inevitable, they were going to be this long, you have to set an example. It doesn't matter. I thought Stephen Jackson's should have been longer, but I'm okay with it.
That being said, we can talk now.
I TOTALLY SUPPORT THE PLAYERS GOING INTO THE STANDS AND BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF THOSE FANS.
You might be surprised that I say that. But seriously people, let's not talk about legal issues or anything like that for a second. Let me just ask you a simple, common sense question:
Should you throw a drink at a man you know can kick your ass?
I mean, should you? Shouldn't you know better than to do that? Shouldn't your basic animanl instinct of self preservation tell you not to ATTACK a person who you know you cannot physically defend yourself from? What has happened here? I don't understand all the people who are saying it is the horrible players who are responsible here, and how could they do this horrible thing? What kind of society do we live in where a fan is the victim for ATTACKING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING WITHOUT PROVICATION? Isn't it just common sense not to do that? What am I missing here?
Let me ask everyone reading this a question: let's say you're at a party at someone's house, and someone smaller than you throws his drink--cup and all--in your face. While you're not looking. Almost hits you in the eye. What would you do? Is that person not grossly stupid? Is that person really a "victim" to whatever you decide to do? And are you really going to look me in the eye and tell me that there's no way you wouldn't hit that person? No way at all?
Sorry kids. Was it right for the players to attack the fans? No. They shouldn't have done that. You all know me...I'm 6'7" 240, and I'm pretty fucking strong. There are very few people I meet that I can't beat the shit out of. And how many fights have I been in in my life? Outside of my brothers :-)...1? 2? in my entire life? And those were in middle school. How many times in my life would I have been justified for getting in a fight? Many. But you don't do it. You take the high ground.
However, that being said, it doesn't mean there haven't been many times in my life that I had the right to beat someone up. There have been plenty of times when someone deserved to be beaten up by me. There have been plenty of times someone NEEDED to be beaten up by me. Just like those fans. The players shouldn't have fought them...but they deserved every fucking punch they took. If the DA in Detroit tries to prosecute the players involved, then he had better prosecute EVERY SINGLE FUCKING FAN WHO THREW SOMETHING. Every single one. You can find them on video. It's not that hard.
Also...to the NBA and all of professional sports...FUCK YOU TOO!
That's right. As I said, this was inevitable. How many attacks by fans have we seen in the last ten years? It's been getting worse, hasn't it? More and more and more fans are becoming more and more and more abusive. It's getting out of control. And what has any of the professional sports done about it? Nothing. Not a God damn thing. Monica Seles gets stabbed...what does tennis do? Throw one or two more security guards out there? Wow. You look at those matches; do you really feel like if someone had half a mind to get out there again, they would have any problem? Look at the NBA benches...is there any protection for players at all? Pro baseball? How easy is it for fans to get on the field? Ask the first base coach for Arizona Diamondbacks who was savagely beaten. Attacks--both verbal and physical--are becoming more and more savage and frequent. We're way past the point of some innocent heckling here people. Something must be done about fans.
And league's aren't doing anything. All they care about is getting people in the seats. THAT'S IT. We need some serious changes here, and the league's won't even condem fans behavior! And cities aren't doing enough about it either. I listened to ESPN's legal analyst this morning; the fans that STARTED this RIOT will probably just be charged with a misdemeanor, which means you pay a fine, MAYBE spend a couple of nights in jail--but more likely get some sort of probation or community service. But...that's only if the DA decides too charge them, which is highly unlikely!
So let me get this straight: we have a fan base that is growing increasingly more violent, hostile, and dangerous towards players and coaches, yet the sporting leagues will do nothing to protect the players, and the laws in place against the individual fans are way too lenient. So what I ask you is this: WHAT CHOICE DO THE PLAYERS HAVE? These human beings have the right to protect themselves. Since the leagues and civil authorities are not doing it, what else are the players supposed to do? Hence this being inevitable. Quite frankly, I'm glad this happened over a beer getting thrown. I'm glad it didn't wait until it got worse...until a player was somehow seriously injured, and then we notice that something needs to be done. Who knows though...like I said, Monica Seles--at the time one of the best tennis players in the world--was stabbed, and what the fuck have we done? What, does a player need to DIE before we admit that maybe the fans have a problem, and should be held accountable?
One last thing...alcohol. I loved the press conference where the NBA handed down suspensions, and blamed everything on the players and not the fans. One of the reporters asked David Stern about this, basically saying, "So, are you going to stop serving booze, since fans are getting drunk and attacking players?" To which David Stern dodged the question with a reply like "We're looking into the role alcohol played. Quick next question!" Meaning: "Bitch are you fucking kidding me? Do you know how much money we make off of alcohol sales? Hell will freeze over before we stop serving booze at a game!" Yet again proving as long as the fans are ponying up the dough, the leagues are content to pretty much let them do whatever they want.
So to anyone who wants to condem the players (and remember...I hate Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson. I would love to come out here and say that they are terrible people--they are--and are totally wrong. However, they are NOT wrong in this instance), I evoke the incontrovertable laws of common sense, and would like to remind you of this, my quote of the day:
If you don't want to get your ass beat, don't start a fight with a man who can obvioulsy beat the Hell out of you.
You see kids, if we all lived by that simple rule...then none of this would have happened.
Before we get into the ramifications, here's what happened for the few who don't know:
The Indiana Pacers were playing the Detroit Pistons in Detroit. With 50 seconds left in the game, Ron Artest (6'7", 250) fouled Big Ben Wallace (listed at 6'9" 240, but I doubt that...he's got to weigh more than that) hard. Not dirty, but hard. Ben shoved Ron Artest, who backed away from Ben so a fight would not break out. Eventually, he laid down on the scorers table and put his hands behind his head. The Pacers and the Pistons gathered around, and some shoving ensued--Stephen Jackson of the Pacers went particularly crazy--but nothing too bad happened. Things started to die down between the two teams.
At this point, a fan about 5 rows deep threw a full cup of beer at Ron Artest, hitting him in the head as he lay on the scorers table.
Ron Ron immediately got up, jumped into about the third row of the stands, jumped into the fifth row, grabbed the guy who threw the beer at him (reporters who saw the guy throw the beer confirmed that Ron Artest did get the right guy), and started to beat the shit out of him.
At this point, the guy's friends--four or five of them--grabbed Artest and drug him down. Then the Pacers entered the stands. Stephen Jackson grabbed one of the guys grabbing Artest and started to beat the shit out of him. David Harrison grabbed Artest and started to drag him towards the court. Jermaine O'Neal started to beat up one of the assailants. More fans began throwing drinks at the players.
Eventually, the players made it back to the court. However, several fans had made their way on to the court, and started physically and verbally abusing players. The players then started to beat the shit out of the fans on the court. The entire time, fans in the seats are throwing whatever they can get their hands on at the Pacers.
The coaches finally start guiding the players toward the locker room. Unfortuantely, the entrance to the locker room is by the bleachers. The Pacers were getting PELTED by almost everyone in the arena. O'Neal and Jackson again tried to get into the stands to get at some of the fans pelting them, but--fortunately for those fans--the blechers are raised at this section, and the players couldn't make it up to them.
On Sunday, David Stern suspended Ron Artest for the remainder of the season, Stephen Jackson for 30 games, and Jermaine O'Neal for 25 games. These are the three best players on the Indiana Pacers, and all suspensions are without pay. Ben Wallace was suspeneded for 6 games. There were a few other suspensions for one game for players leaving the bench.
Now...here's what I wrote in my NBA Eastern Conference Preview about the Pacers:
"Wow. This team has a chance to take over the Blazer’s title as “crackhead crazy team of the league”. Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, and Jamaal Tinsley all on one team? Seriously? Through in Scott Pollard’s crackah ass? Wow! This is going to be awesome! "
Sorry...apparently I forgot to mention Jermaine O'Neal.
There are a couple things that it is important to note before we begin this conversation:
* Ron Artest has a history of violent behavior in the NBA. He is suspened for dirty play quite often. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that he is on steroids (the guy is huge, and I remember a few years back when he was just some skinny small forward). I believe the reason for his crazy behavior is Roid Rage. I hate Ron Artest.
* Stephen Jackson is, in my opinion, certifiably insane, and I can't stand him, either.
* Big Ben Wallace is one of the most popular and beloved figures in the NBA. He is HUGE. Literally a huge body of iron. However, he's a nice guy, and is seen as somewhat of a "lovable huggable bear" type of star...he's huge, but people love him because they feel they can trust him. I am also a fan of Big Ben.
* I support the suspensions...they were inevitable, they were going to be this long, you have to set an example. It doesn't matter. I thought Stephen Jackson's should have been longer, but I'm okay with it.
That being said, we can talk now.
I TOTALLY SUPPORT THE PLAYERS GOING INTO THE STANDS AND BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF THOSE FANS.
You might be surprised that I say that. But seriously people, let's not talk about legal issues or anything like that for a second. Let me just ask you a simple, common sense question:
Should you throw a drink at a man you know can kick your ass?
I mean, should you? Shouldn't you know better than to do that? Shouldn't your basic animanl instinct of self preservation tell you not to ATTACK a person who you know you cannot physically defend yourself from? What has happened here? I don't understand all the people who are saying it is the horrible players who are responsible here, and how could they do this horrible thing? What kind of society do we live in where a fan is the victim for ATTACKING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING WITHOUT PROVICATION? Isn't it just common sense not to do that? What am I missing here?
Let me ask everyone reading this a question: let's say you're at a party at someone's house, and someone smaller than you throws his drink--cup and all--in your face. While you're not looking. Almost hits you in the eye. What would you do? Is that person not grossly stupid? Is that person really a "victim" to whatever you decide to do? And are you really going to look me in the eye and tell me that there's no way you wouldn't hit that person? No way at all?
Sorry kids. Was it right for the players to attack the fans? No. They shouldn't have done that. You all know me...I'm 6'7" 240, and I'm pretty fucking strong. There are very few people I meet that I can't beat the shit out of. And how many fights have I been in in my life? Outside of my brothers :-)...1? 2? in my entire life? And those were in middle school. How many times in my life would I have been justified for getting in a fight? Many. But you don't do it. You take the high ground.
However, that being said, it doesn't mean there haven't been many times in my life that I had the right to beat someone up. There have been plenty of times when someone deserved to be beaten up by me. There have been plenty of times someone NEEDED to be beaten up by me. Just like those fans. The players shouldn't have fought them...but they deserved every fucking punch they took. If the DA in Detroit tries to prosecute the players involved, then he had better prosecute EVERY SINGLE FUCKING FAN WHO THREW SOMETHING. Every single one. You can find them on video. It's not that hard.
Also...to the NBA and all of professional sports...FUCK YOU TOO!
That's right. As I said, this was inevitable. How many attacks by fans have we seen in the last ten years? It's been getting worse, hasn't it? More and more and more fans are becoming more and more and more abusive. It's getting out of control. And what has any of the professional sports done about it? Nothing. Not a God damn thing. Monica Seles gets stabbed...what does tennis do? Throw one or two more security guards out there? Wow. You look at those matches; do you really feel like if someone had half a mind to get out there again, they would have any problem? Look at the NBA benches...is there any protection for players at all? Pro baseball? How easy is it for fans to get on the field? Ask the first base coach for Arizona Diamondbacks who was savagely beaten. Attacks--both verbal and physical--are becoming more and more savage and frequent. We're way past the point of some innocent heckling here people. Something must be done about fans.
And league's aren't doing anything. All they care about is getting people in the seats. THAT'S IT. We need some serious changes here, and the league's won't even condem fans behavior! And cities aren't doing enough about it either. I listened to ESPN's legal analyst this morning; the fans that STARTED this RIOT will probably just be charged with a misdemeanor, which means you pay a fine, MAYBE spend a couple of nights in jail--but more likely get some sort of probation or community service. But...that's only if the DA decides too charge them, which is highly unlikely!
So let me get this straight: we have a fan base that is growing increasingly more violent, hostile, and dangerous towards players and coaches, yet the sporting leagues will do nothing to protect the players, and the laws in place against the individual fans are way too lenient. So what I ask you is this: WHAT CHOICE DO THE PLAYERS HAVE? These human beings have the right to protect themselves. Since the leagues and civil authorities are not doing it, what else are the players supposed to do? Hence this being inevitable. Quite frankly, I'm glad this happened over a beer getting thrown. I'm glad it didn't wait until it got worse...until a player was somehow seriously injured, and then we notice that something needs to be done. Who knows though...like I said, Monica Seles--at the time one of the best tennis players in the world--was stabbed, and what the fuck have we done? What, does a player need to DIE before we admit that maybe the fans have a problem, and should be held accountable?
One last thing...alcohol. I loved the press conference where the NBA handed down suspensions, and blamed everything on the players and not the fans. One of the reporters asked David Stern about this, basically saying, "So, are you going to stop serving booze, since fans are getting drunk and attacking players?" To which David Stern dodged the question with a reply like "We're looking into the role alcohol played. Quick next question!" Meaning: "Bitch are you fucking kidding me? Do you know how much money we make off of alcohol sales? Hell will freeze over before we stop serving booze at a game!" Yet again proving as long as the fans are ponying up the dough, the leagues are content to pretty much let them do whatever they want.
So to anyone who wants to condem the players (and remember...I hate Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson. I would love to come out here and say that they are terrible people--they are--and are totally wrong. However, they are NOT wrong in this instance), I evoke the incontrovertable laws of common sense, and would like to remind you of this, my quote of the day:
If you don't want to get your ass beat, don't start a fight with a man who can obvioulsy beat the Hell out of you.
You see kids, if we all lived by that simple rule...then none of this would have happened.
posted by Michael Pondrom at 8:03 PM
9 Comments:
Every view of the beer being thrown shows a trickle of drops landing on Artests uniform. A fan threw a beer at a crowd of people fighting and Ron Artest immediatly thinks its ok to jump into the stands and beat the hell of this guy. Where in life is that acceptable behavior. If a girl throws a drink in my buddys face I won't beat the crap out of her. I know better, there are rules in life....
No one excluding about 60% of the fans in Indy approve with the behavior of their players.....so why would anyone else. The result of Ron Artest escalating the issue was many people injury...lots of rich fans now suing the players...lots of lost salary money....and pissed off pacer season ticket holders.....incredible. All because a few drops of beer landed on Ron Artest inadvertantly.
Brian Sowell :)
David Stern is one step closer to seeing his dream of Shaq in the Finals come true.
Brian,
Don't mix the sexes up in this. Nice try though. You dodged my question...if a guy threw a drink in your face at a party, you can swear that you would never take a swing at him?
I'd go higher than that. I'd say no one excuses the behavior of the players, myself included. However, a lot of people out there agree with me: the fans were just as, if not more, responsible. I didn't excuse his actions. I said they were what was necessary, and they were deserved. Sometimes you have to accept that even if you are right, you're still a little wrong, and will be punished. This is one of those situations.
Inadvertantly? You're absolutely wrong Brian. There was nothing inadvertant about what that fan did.
And I was watching the game when it happened, and have seen it replayed at least ten time since. He hit him with the beer. Beer was all over his face. Trust me on this.
Just my thoughts.
Michael
ok...
Every clip I saw shows a little beer sprinkling down, that is all they have shown...I will trust you on that if you say so.
I can mix the sexes. So your saying if a girl threw the beer then artest could not have punched her. Why is that...because there are unspoken rules that society should follow. Kinda like don't beat the crap out of a guy when your at work???
If I was at a party and someone threw beer at me, I would not punch them. I am more civilized than that and they are probably drunk and not worth the law suit.
Now let me ask you, if you were at work and someone threw a drink at you....would you really charge them and take them to the ground in front of your coworkers and boss? Or would you realize that they are just a jackass and your better than them and get paid more?
Thank you and goodnight :)
No, you can't mix the sexes. You know that that's different. Because if a woman had done it, no, he couldn't have hit her. But his wife could have :-D
No, I wouldn't do it at work. But our jobs are entirely different. In some ways they are the same, and in some ways they are different. On that same token, however, I didn't say that he shouldn't have been suspended. What he did was wrong according to his employer, and he knows it, and he choose to do it anyway. Now he's got to pay the piper. Remember what I said: Sometimes things that are right are sometimes also a little wrong, and you have to be prepared to pay the consequences for them.
Also...one of my main points is that Artest was almost forced into taking matters in his own hands because of lack of action by his employer. As someone who works for a company that has faced workplace violence lately (and please no one who knows mention where I work), I would promise you that I would do whatever I deamed necessary to create a safe environment for myself. Now fortunately, my employer has worked hard to create a safe environment for its employees. Unfortunately for Ron Ron, his employer has not.
I'm just glad what has happened at my company--employees being killed--has not happened at Mr. Artest's company. But be honest with me; do you doubt that that is not the direction we are moving in with his business? Do you really think a fan won't try to kill an athlete in the near future? Oh wait...THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED! AND NO ONE HAS DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
He's not just an athlete; he's a human being. And human beings have the right to defend themselves. Sometimes that's done by fighting. It's not the best solution; but sometimes it has to happen.
Michael
There's a lot of people out there who apparently agree with me...
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=1896855
Michael
I have to agree with you. It was AWESOME seeing that smarmy, pencil-neck get creamed. And the look on his face was priceless. Right up to contact that white guy was still antagonizing the player. Like he thought some big Springer-style body guards were going to stop him from getting a beating.
The invisible line was crossed. So now what do we do?
The NFL brawl, the Vibe awards, and the NBA all in one week?
Maybe this is a bad time to be a famous wealthy black entertainer. Well I never thought I would say that!
NBA players are asked to show a TREMENDOUS amount of restraint. They hold back more than I ever could. I'm surprised no one has ever snapped just because of the verbal abuse they are forced to take night after night. When a fan crosses the line and assaults a player... and it WAS assault... that fan needs to know that he can't do something like that. That fan thought he could do whatever he wanted because he "knew" Ron Artest couldn't do anything back. That fan had no balls. He attacked a defenseless person. He was like those girls that hit guys only because they KNOW the guy can't hit em back. Well you know what? as a good friend of mine in college used to say, "I would NEVER hit a woman. But I'd shake the shit out of her!" There has to be consequences to your actions. So take that thought up a notch. This was a grown man. It's not like he was a woman or a little kid. AND he was a pussy. If he was at the zoo and threw something at a gorilla, cause he thought the bars would protect him, and somehow the gorilla got out and smashed his face in... we'd all be talking about how stupid the guy was, not about killing the gorilla. The gorilla was just being a gorilla. Now Ron Artest, in all his roid rage (I agree with Mike), is not far off from a gorilla. This guy was obviously a basketball fan. He HAS to know who Ron Artest is. It's not like he threw a cup at Ray Allen. this is RON ARTEST and the guy did it DELIBERATELY. Was is RIGHT that Ron Atrest went after him? No. It's never right to resolve conflict through violence. Did the fan deserve every last pop in the mouth he got? Yes. So, yeah... Ron Artest beat the crap out of him and at least ONE of the fans finally got what was comin to him. If I was a at a party and threw a beer at Mike... he has every right to kick the crap out of me. And if he did... I couldn't cry about it. I'd just chalk it up in the loss column and remind myself in the future... Don't taunt guys who can obviously beat the crap out of you.
Tone-Loc
Another good article...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/041124
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